Another One Bites the Dust
Two days ago, I challenged the Chinese government to a race. I posted a link to a government spreadsheet hosted on a government web server which contained the name, age, sport, and government ID number of Jiang Yuyuan, another member of China's Olympic gymnastics squad, which showed that she competed underage. After having carefully collected a series of verifiable mirrors of the document, I linked to it for public download. And now that citizen journalists (and professional journalists) all over the globe have downloaded it and verified it en masse, the the document finally got deleted nearly two days later. Now to be purely objective I should probably state that I can't verify the reason for deletion, but at this point the options seem limited. An Excel spreadsheet going back years containing over twelve thousand athlete names vanishes 48 hours after I publish a link to it? That's no accident. Personally I don't think 48 hours is a very good level of effort for a professional censor, but then I've never done that type of work. So I'm interested in what you folks have to say. So here's my poll, let me know if you think 48 hours to censor deserves a Gold, Silver, or Bronze medal.
Here's what censorship looks like:
http://www.zjsports.gov.cn/zjty/node12/node43/userobject1ai4698/00000002.xls
And here's what freedom looks like:
MIRROR : wikileaks.org
MIRROR : Internet Archive
MIRROR : UCLA News Radio
MIRROR : heathershow.com
36 comments:
It's possible that the timeout period has come for some of these pages, but all of this is just too well-timed. I think someone should start noting the times of when Stryde (and anyone else) posted the documents/spreadsheets, and when they got removed. That should already be very convincing to the public that something is going on. There's no reason to remove gymnastics record after gymnastics record off the web, except of course, to cover something up.
Besides, if the Chinese sports administration knew that these gymnasts were of legal age, wouldn't they just let the sites stay up as "mistakes" and let us look like fools by pointing fingers at them?
Stryde, what is also true is many of the links that, support the claim the gymnasts are of age, have also expired.
How about "we are eating your dust" medal? :)
CENSORSHIP
Dear Stryde,
I have followed your search on He Kexin's with great interest. Although the results also give me the impression that she is under-aged, it is over here very possible that they changed her birthday to 1994 at an earlier stage in order to have her compete in a different class and that 1992 is the correct date.
As often here in China, the objective is more important then the means so a change for an earlier competition is not unlikely at all. So although I hope that we will find out the truth, I doubt if we ever will.
However I do want to comment on your remarks on censorship. I am in China and I have personal experience with new websites that were published abroad and blocked within 24 hours because they were made by Chinese but did not meet the local regulations here (a problem which was easily solved by the way).
However I have been able to follow your complete blog directly without having to use a proxy-server or without having to log-on to a system abroad.
This means that your blog has not been blocked even though they have numerous ways to do that, fast.
Now it might be an overlook, but it might also be that the missing documents are deleted by local people rather then the state censorship bureau. It is a bit weird if the censorship does delete the underlying documents but keeps your blog open for everybody to see.
Although I am not denying the censorship over here, things like this (manipulating dates and other information) happens less and less in China as many ordinary citizens are unhappy with it and (sometimes widely) publish it over the Internet. As public embarrassment is one of the worst things that can happen to an organization or person in China, the consequences for the officials involved can be severe.
So maybe we will never know the real birthdate of He Kezin, but discussions like these drastically reduce this type of manipulation (wherever en whenever it has taken place) and also create a fair playing field for everybody here in China itself. Thanks
I don't even think that should get a medal! 48 Hours? In a case this sensative, that shouldn't even qualify to make the olympics. But it is more and more apparent that they are tring to cover it up.
A previous poster had said that Chinese sports rules required the First Registration to be the Official and Permanent registration of age. If these documents show her First Registration and birthdate of 1994, then this should be the end all, say all. If I read correctly, the authorities must check credentials before the First Registration, so in my mind she must have been born in 1994. Also, the Chinese government says they do not control birth records, that is left to the province in which you are born. Again, if this is the case, First Registration info would be documented and checked, the actual passport people would have no way of double checking and would only be able to follow what the Chinese Sports officials say. I bring this up because the head of the sports division in an earlier speech makes a comment about having no control over the passport issuers. If the passport issuers are unable to check any other documents, then of course they would believe the Official sports division.
I also agree one of the quickest ways to show guilt is to run and hide. By deleting every page as we find it and show the world, what other conclusion are we to come to.
justin : there is no timeout period for documents on a web server. search engines are different. this document had to have been removed deliberately.
paul : the recurring idea that he kexin's age was forged younger in order to compete in the intercity games is a recurring red herring. her first time registration was in 2005, at which having been born in 1992 would not have been an obstacle to competing. however she registered as 1-1-1994 at this time. Read cindy's posts to see the level of documentation required to be presented during first time registration...
one last thing - many people have pointed out my blog is not censored from within china. please consider the possibility that this is because someone wants to know who's reading it.
go get em tiger. carter. btw, I am interested in what your day job is paying you for these days you should look me up!
Hello Stryde,
I think I found a news report confirming the suspicion that Jiang Yuyuan is actually 15. It is dated 2008-1-2, and they say she's 15. Here's the link below. I used the google translator so somebody knowing Chinese should confirm it.
http://laiba.tianya.cn/laiba/CommMsgs?cmm=12330&tid=2575308845047908139
It's also funny how some report she (Jiang Yuyuan) joined the local gymnastics team at 7 year old, others at 8 years old. I guess in 2000 she was either 7 or 8, depending which birthday you have in mind
Another news report about Jiang Yuyuan, this time from 2007-11-30.
http://sports.enorth.com.cn/system/2007/11/30/002417701.shtml
First they say she's 15, then they say "1991 born". But there is no 1991 born who at the end of 2007 was still 15. Hmmm...
This seems like a very simple case. Either the FIG and IOC recognize that the Chinese Government sports authority is lying and disqualifies the team from the Olympics -or- they recognize and publicly admit to the fact that they have absolutely no power to prevent anyone from cheating in this way.
Either way, they (the FIG and the IOC) have now taken long enough to resolve this issue that they come across as weak and without conviction to enforce the rules of their sport.
What purpose do they serve if not to enforce the rules...ESPECIALLY when a state government is the offending party?
I have to say, it doesn't even deserve a bronze. The should be reading your page every day, and more prepared to delete. Perhaps they're conflicted as to whether or not they should continue covering the truth, or admit that they've been caught.
Either way, YOU definitely deserve the gold. Thank you, Sir.
I'm not sure what color they oughta get for 48 hour turnaround, but they do get high marks for consistency... they've been dumping docs as fast as they get posted.
As the IOC apparently doesn't have any intention of acknowledging that years of the Chinese own documentation outweigh a few docs easily altered, it is likely that your win in turning up the evidence is only a moral victory. That said, you get a Gold in this one as far as most of those watching are concerned.
I suggest we make this an official Olympic event for 2012... maybe the 10 Meter Document Dump or somesuch. Just a matter of courtesy to make sure new events are something the 2008 host is familiar with.
Hi, Stryde:
You are doing a great job. In case your site gets blocked, is there another way for Chinese people within China to contact you? I believe many Chinese wanted to know the truth as well. They might be able to provide more evidence.
I will not be surprised if you get an offer from the Chinese Government to work for them before the 2012 game…. With all that extravagant detailed planning on opening and closing ceremonies, they forgot to hire a smart computer expert to cover up the crime. It’s hard to plan a “perfect crime” in this internet age, isn’t it?.
In Defense of The Little One, The Incomprable Miss Deng LinLin.
Offering a Fresh New Perspective on the Topic that is Sweeping the Nation!!!
Today's Topic: What is this really all about Anyway???
I have read ALL of the comment's from ALL of the Different "Blog's" regarding this subject. To Begin with I have not tried to in any way mask where I stand on the issue. Though I know the difference between "Right and Wrong" and In no way condone Cheating or the actions and policies of the Chinese Government ( That I Truly could careless about ), I am infact HAPPY for the Chinese Team, because the young ladies themselves are HAPPY.
Regardless of this age issue they still went out there and EARNED their Gold Medal's. The outcome was not PRE-Determined, They were not awarded their gold medals prior to the beginning of the Team event. I seem to recall watching them perform( And do a damn good Job !!! )
I am on the side of the Girls themselves. In reading your various "points-of-view" I do find it intersting that SOME of you are going to such trouble to dig up various web-links and attach them to your otherwise un-remarkable comments and then pat each other on the back for your efforts, Or continously compliment the Blog Host for his Sherlock Holmes like investigating abilities.
All the while denying why it is that you feel compelled to comment in the first place. Is this truly the great search for ( Truth and Justice ) that some of you are claiming it to be? Or is there something else? Some other motivating factor that is compelling you to " Be Heard ".
I am not sure, but this ( X-Files ) like search for the truth seems a little suspect to me. If you just came out and said we are a bunch of "Pissed-off" people who feel cheated, That would be a lot easier to buy then some of this NON-SENSE.
Did the Chinese Cheat? YES, Am I happy about that? NO, Am I Happy for the young ladies themselves? ABSOLUTELY.
I saw nothing better in the entire olympics than the SMILE on their Beautiful young faces.
I fully expect to get insulted for my views by people like Rob Miller - Ph.D. and others who must think I am a Chinese Person who must live in China and is " waiving his red flag " As I look out my window here in San Diego,Ca I see no red flags...
That's how long it took for them to come up with a resolution after numerous meeting and got the approval from high officials.
Yay! I look like freedom! Hehe.
As for me, I don't think that sort of censorship deserves a medal at all - after all, if they were really good at censorship, we wouldn't be discussing this at all, because we wouldn't even know about it. And that's the scariest part of all.
You go guy! USE that good brain the Lord blessed you with to bring JUSTICE to everyone the world over, whether involved or observing. THANK YOU! Colleen Bowen
Denver Colorado
Michael, your blog does not appear to be "state secret":
http://www.baidu.com/s?wd=Stryde+Hax
stryde, i would like to know as im a avid internet research , tracker , and i recently worked on a cookie tracker , i understand that you really cant get full informative reslts from blogger.com so is it possible to include an image hosted on another site that can track everyone that visits your blog , then we can find the ip addresses that are CN Govt Specials and see how much actual interest is being directed and maybe this would answer some question like why you are not being blocked , please dont post this , but i would like to hear from you
maybe you should take a look at this,
http://www.anti-cnn.com/forum/cn/viewthread.php?tid=93809&extra=&page=1
IOC has not responded and they are just going to put this under the rug. As someone said before, if China has nothing to hide then there is absolutely no reason for them to keep on deleting documents.
Stryder,
I have not seen any news organization following this story anymore. Did the IOC or the official Gymnast association provide a formal/final decision? I really hope that you won't quit, and brings these corrupt people to justice.
WOW !!!!
Well over 24 hours since the comments have been "updated" ????
What up wit dat?
All kidding aside, I hope the Chinese version of the CIA or their "Black-Ops" department have not helped to "Silence You".
Anyway, I am sure, I am not the only one eagerly awaiting your return. Thank You for providing this forum in the first place, Very Cool!!!
DLLF
LMAO @ that Anti-CNN forum topic.
They're saying how Stryde Hax photoshopped everytthing since it was black on white, it must have been easily photoshopped. And also, they've claimed that the documents are suposed to be on intranet only, so there was no way for Stryde to access it.
And they're condeming Stryde for publishing private information such as their national ID numbers. LOLLLL They seem to conveniently forget the case of Grace Wang. Most of that site was in support of humiliating her by revealing all of her information.
There are websites that are blocked by Chinese government and only those who work for the government (e.g. internet police) can get access to these sites.
Here's the latest I'm able to find from the IOC (8/25):
http://www.insidebayarea.com/ci_10292803
"The international federation has required the delivery of birth certificates and all the documents like family books, entries in schools and things like that," Rogge said. "They have received the documents, and at first sight it seems to be OK."
Not really a comment. Don't know how else to reach you though.
Nice talk last night. Don't know if I'll run into you at another NoVASec thing. They meet at the same time as my discrete math class :(
Oh, uh, check out the Skype section of this page, maybe? http://www.pulseaudio.org/wiki/PerfectSetup
Here is another piece of evidence that Cui's explanation of a clerical error does not make sense.
I translate a Chinese report dated 31 October 2007 below. For the original see: sports.sohu.com/20071031/n252962821.shtml
HEADLINE: Strictly Cracking down on "Age Falsification": Some 40 Competitors Disqualified
According to Xinhua News Agency, the organizing committee of the 6th City Games used strict measures to verify age in order to crackdown on "age falsification" among young athletes. Guo Jianjun, Deputy Director of the Competition Division of the State General Administration of Sports, told Xinhua reporters that some 40 athletes who entered final rounds of competitions either were disqualified or withdrew on their own after a credential review found they had more than one registered age.
Guo Jianjun said, age falsification is a serious problem in youth competitions. This unhealthy trend seriously violates sports ethics, damages the system for training talents, and is not conducive to healthy development of young athletes. The State General Administration of Sports has long stressed cracking down on "age falsification" among young athletes as a way to uphold the spirit and rule of competition; to this end, multiple credential checking measures have been adopted.
Guo Jianjun also said, from the day of opening until now, the competition division of the 6th City Games has not received a single complaint about age problems. [END OF REPORT]
He Kexin's first registration was made in 2005 by Beijing Sports Bureau; her birth year then was 1994. In 2006, she was exchanged from Beijing to represent Wuhan, the host city of the 6th City Games and won gold medal on the uneven beams. The strict age checking didn't find any problem with He's birth year of 1994 back then.
Female gymnasts have to be born between 1/1/1994 and 12/13/1996 to compete in the City Games. This rule was instituted by the Chinese Gymnastic Association (CGA) in 2003 at the 5th City Games, because the CGA wanted to find gymnasts for the 2008 Olympic Games. CGA considers the best age for female gymnasts to compete in the Olympics as between 16 and 18, so it limited the age for 5th City Games which was held in 2003 to 11 to 13 years old. See www.cga.net.cn/data/classroom/2002-01-14/140488.html
Similarly, the 6th City Games, held in 2007, was used to discover gymnastic talents for the 2012 Olympics and limited female gymnasts to between 11 and 13 years old as well.
Age falsification usually happens not at the first, but later, registrations. When an athlete registers for the first time, SGAS rules require both original household registration and original national ID card be checked. Also, there is little reason to falsify age at the first registration, because one gains anything from doing that.
However, at later times, when local sports bureaus want to use their best athletes to compete against athletes from other regions at national youth competitions, local sports bureaus are tempted to falsify athletes' age and they can get local public security bureaus to issue new national ID cards to LOWER the athletes' age. This may have happened with Jiang Yuyuan.
Jiang's earlier registrations in 2004, 2005, and 2006 all showed her to be born in 1991. But a 2007 registration gave Jiang's National Id Number as 330302199310013648. The first 6 digits are the zip code of the public security bureau that issued the ID; 330302 is the code for Zhejiang province, Wenzhou municipality, Lucheng district (鹿城区). The next 8 digits embed the birthdate.
Jiang was born in Liuzhou, Guangxi. This ID card cannot be her original one. It's possible that Wenzhou, the city that hosted 2007 provincial youth games, made a new ID card for Jiang with a younger age to make her eligible to compete in the games. This kind of "age falsification" happens a lot and it's the kind the SGAS tries hard to crack down on.
In my view, He Kexin and Yang Yilin are suspects for falsifying age for the Olympics, while Jiang Yuyuan's age (and national ID card) might have been falsified for the 2007 Zhejiang provincial youth games. In 2005 and 2006 registrations, He's birth year was 1995. In 2004, 2005, and 2006 registrations, Yang's birth year was 1993.
姓名：江钰源 Jiangyuyuan
出生日期：1991-11-01
身高：143cm
体重：30公斤
* 运动经历：
1994年进入柳州训练基地练体操，教练杨国秀；1996年进入广西壮族自治区体校，教练邓岚；1997年进入自治区体工大队，教练杨国秀；1999年进入浙江体工大队，教练徐惊蕾、王明友、朱毅斌、俞卫青；2004年进入国家队，教练员是熊景斌、张霞。
* 主要成绩：
2007年 世界杯上海站高低杠冠军、自由操冠军
2007年 世界锦标赛女团亚军、自由操第四
2008年 全国体操锦标赛暨奥运会选拔赛全能冠军
-----
她不至于一岁就进体操基地了吧!
It is impossible to be a gymnast at the age of 1.
ALL OF THIS IS ABSOLUTELY GREAT!!
A NEW CHALLENGE, ALSO RELATED TO BLATANT HYPROCRACY:
CAN YOU FIND TRIG PALIN'S ORIGINAL BERTH CERTIFICATE?
THANK YOU IF YOU CAN.
DIRECT CONTACT IF YOU NEED IT: blairalef@aol.com.
Ian has a great point - if Jiang entered regional training center in 1984, then for her to be 14 she must have qualified at age of ONE:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%E6%B1%9F%E9%92%B0%E6%BA%90+%E8%BF%9B%E5%85%A5%E6%9F%B3%E5%B7%9E%E8%AE%AD%E7%BB%83%E5%9F%BA%E5%9C%B0%E7%BB%83%E4%BD%93%E6%93%8D&aq=f&oq=
Both Google and Baidu search shows the 1994 Liozhou gymnastics academy entry credible.
Here's one of the article with the 1994 Liozhou academy reference, where Jiang mentioned her humble beginning:
http://www.find80.cn/viewthread.php?tid=2540&extra=page%3D1&sid=AsDx2F
The interview is titled "Mommy, you don't have to beg for food anymore".
Nothing to say, but support you!
As a Chinese, when Zhang Yimou, chief director of the 2008 Olympic Game's Commencement said "we used a fake singer to earn reputation for our country!", I felt sad, shame, and, how to say, I thought I can only laugh at them...
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