"I was only 14 years old"
I'd like to conclude writing about the age controversy in Chinese gymnastics with this document. Produced by Heather Lawver and Cindy our volunteer translator, here for the first time in English is Yang Yun's confession to having cheated at the 2000 Olympic games in Sydney. While Marion Jones does her time in prison for cheating, Yang Yun still holds her Olympic medal. This video lets us put to bed once and for all the question of whether China's government has issued false documents that have allowed their gymnasts to win medals. The only question left is: how many times have they done it?
While the Internet has made electronic identity easier to wipe out and easier to censor, it has also made the distribution of truth much harder to suppress. In conclusion, here's Yang Yun in her own words. I'm very proud to have worked with so many people around the world on this project: a sincere thank you to everyone who helped.
-stryde.hax
37 comments:
"Returning to Beijing, She had this happy family photo taken. This is the memory of her 13-year gymnastic career."
So She start training gymnastic at the age of One.
Are you going to translate this clip as well?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk8ZwHd2GA8
I'm so happy to see you have returned. I was beginning to think the whole scandal had exhausted you. You were Atlas holding up the world on this issue!
Even if the IOC (as I suspect) will let this disappear, you can derive satisfaction from knowing you were right, and that no one could tell you that 2+2=5 or 2008-1994=16.
Has the IOC or FIG consulted you at all on your findings? Have they issued a final determination yet?
I tried to contact them and couldn't find their contact info online.
Take care!
lex,
Are you arguing she stopped gymnastics straight after the Olympics? If so you are mistaken apparently she retired in 2003 or 2004 so that's 3-4 more years. Which puts her in the right sort of age range for an elite gymnast.
Lex - you're assuming that she retired in the year of the Sydney Olympics, which would mean she had to begin training at 1 year old to have been 14 in the year 2000.
If you watch the whole clip you learn that she didn't retire until around the time of the Athens Olympics, for which she didn't qualify due to injury.
At this time she would have been 17 or 18, meaning a 13 year career was possibly if she started training at 4 or 5 years old.
You Know!!! a person could begin to feel "CENSORED" when he post's valid arguement comments and has them repeatedly not show-up in the comments section of a certain blog.
I have a differing opinion then the Herd. I am well aware of this, but I do not believe my comments amount to "Hooliganism" or "Off topic Jeering"
Just because I do not share Colonel Kurtz's , I mean (Rob Miller's) enthusiastic outlook on the great search for truth and justice (Conspiracy Investigation), does not mean I am any less passionate about my arguements.
Wether it is intended or not, the topics on this blog and the vast majority of the commentary come off sounding like this: ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK, PUNISH, PUNISH, PUNISH the Horrible Cheating Chinese Team. And lets not forget to lend our sympathies to poor Team USA, who were cheated out of their chance to grace the cover of Wheaties with their bright smiling faces and show off their Gold Medals.
Again, I could truly care less about The Chinese Government. I do care a great deal about the young ladies themselves. They are not ROBOTS or PAWNS. They are REAL human beings with hopes and dreams and feelings of their own. In my eyes, they went out on the competion floor and earned what they won. No-One gave them anything. They were allowed to enter the competion, They competed. They WON.
The girls themselves should not be punished for the decisions of their country. Taking away the medals would be punishing them. They are human beings, They would be sad and heartbroken. I WILL NOT STAND FOR THAT, NOT FOR ONE SECOND!!!
I feel as passionatly about my arguements as all of the people who have gone to the trouble to dig-up and attach various web-links to their comments in support of this (Investigation). They have been allowed to be heard, I hope the same courtesy will be extended to me.
Thank You, DLLF
See what I've had to put up with?
I've been arguing with various China-philes on YouTube and it's like trying to penetrate a brick wall. They are perfect examples of Orwellian Doublethink and Crimestop.
There's this 2008 video on YouTube purportedly of Jiang reciting an age of 12 in 2003. Of course there's nothing in the video which proves the interview was made in 2003 and nothing that proves Jiang was telling the truth when asked her age.
Especially after Yang Yun, it's not at all implausible that China actually thought ahead a few years and had Jiang lie in expectation of her competing.
Nevertheless, I'm not saying the video was doctored- I'm merely saying it proves nothing, particularly in the face of documents to the contrary.
BTW, I found the email address of FIG and expressed my great interest in having them address this issue seriously.
I doubt it will make an impression but I'm hoping their reply will be amusing.
denglinlin fan - again, why are you so personally vengeful against other commenters? And why so hateful against Mike himself? He's just a human being like anyone else, he has a really demanding job that keeps him *insanely* busy - he can't update everyone's comments the minute they come in! Just because it takes a while for your comments to show up, doesn't mean they won't be posted. And if some of your comments truly have disappeared, don't automatically assume malice: I know for a fact he's been having difficulties with Blogger. I haven't seen any evidence of anyone who's out to get you in any way and I've seen a lot of your comments get posted. So take a breather, calm down, and perhaps stop assuming the worst about everyone, okay?
And as for me, since I was the one who suggested the translation of this video and was responsible for the editing, I can say from experience that NO ONE worked on this in an effort to attack or punish Yang Yun. If you go to my website and read my blog entry about my intentions in producing this video, you'll know that it has nothing whatsoever to do with any desire to punish Yang Yun or the other athletes. In fact, as I've demonstrated before in my previous statements in response to your comments, I have nothing but concern and respect for the athletes themselves! You've even responded as such, saying that you respect and understand that! So why do you continually attack my efforts and the efforts of Mike to just try and find the truth? Why do you keep thinking this is all about some greedy American attempt to gain Wheaties covers? After all of our discussions, after all the blog entries Mike and I have written, after your own responses to my comments to you, that's just plain ridiculous.
Go to my blog, read what I have to say, and I'll say it again: removing the medals of cheating athletes isn't about the Americans, it isn't even about an effort to hurt the athletes. It's about PROTECTING the athletes from DANGEROUS and ABUSIVE training practices! Didn't you see in that video that poor Yang Yun was forced back into training and competition despite suffering through FIVE fractures of her hand? She was forced back into competition before she even had the opportunity to heal! If you are truly SO concerned about the feelings and well-being of the athletes, how can you possibly support that? How can you possibly object to efforts to stop such horrible abuse?
Regardless of what you might think, that's why I produced this video, that's why Mike produced this video, and it has nothing to do with so-called "American greed." We are truly concerned for these athletes and that's why this issue is so important to us. As hard as it may be for you to believe, we actually truly care about Chinese people, and in this case, we deeply care for the pain and agony these athletes have been subjected to. If you choose to reject the truth, coming directly from me to you, then there's nothing left to comment about, is there?
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/gymnastics/news?slug=ap-gym-underagechinese&prov=ap&type=lgns
To: dengliglinfan.
You keep saying you don't want the girls to get hurt. You keep saying you don't care for the Chinese government. You keep saying they earned their medals on the competition floor. Yet you miss the point that this investigation by our community (of you and I and stride and rob miller and lots of others) is not against the girls. This whole blog and the work of so many people is about protecting our trust as www citizens in the content that gets displayed everyday on web pages around the world. Gymnastics is here just an example. The fact that we got proof that information was changed, that pages and documents have been removed, makes us want to see a higher international organization take a stance. That's all.
Of course people get emotional because we're also talking here about 5 little girls. You say that if their medals were taken they would be hurt. Aren't they hurt already? Do you think they're happy knowing they competed underage, under the pressure of their government? (they were promised eternal glory or complete disregard for all their sacrifices in case they would fail to win. This big push by greedy people will make them hurt their entire life and potentially kill them prematurely). Would you be happy knowing that you won something by cheating? Even if you know you hardly had a choice. Maybe in China the culture and the mentality is different. But in the western culture nobody would celebrate a medal won by breaking the rules.
Saying they should be given the medals because they were initially allowed to compete is wrong. How about the other 5 Chinese girls, the ones over 16 who would have been in the team had the government not step in to falsify passports? Who's defending them? Who even knows their names? How about the sacrifices they made dreaming about Olympic team only to be replaced at the last moment by "the new star" 14 years old He Kexin? How do you think they sleep at night knowing that, had they been allowed to compete, THEY could have gotten the gold (or silver or any medal or just be part of this wonderful Olympic moment). How about these girls' parents who sacrificed everything for their daughters to be Olympic caliber gymnasts? How many families relied on them competing in Beijing so that later the Government can gift them a house or a life pension to take them out of poverty? Have you thought about these probably equally adorable ladies?
denglinlinfan, one more thing. Assuming that the truth is that these 5 girls were all underage at the moment they competed in the Olympics, and assuming you are the president of FIG (international Gymnastics Federation) and that you and the whole world know for sure they were underage. What would you do? How do you show that the rules are for everybody and not just for some. And how do you show that you really believe that these rules are in place so that young girls cannot get hurt by harsh training at a very young age which will make them suffer consequences their entire lives? How do you show that you don't encourage the Chinese government and other governments to do this again at the expense of other adorable little girls? How do you show you care for all the girls, not just these 5 girls? Just think about it for a second and please answer if you can.
I think the crux of the matter lies in the fact that there is a double standard, not that the Chinese team is evil and the US Team is all that is good and just. The rules should probably be changed to allow for younger gymnasts or be properly enforced.
In response to Heather & IO:
Thank You IO for including me in our "community", it feels good to belong even if considered the Black Sheep for my differing views.
To begin with, Heather, I think there maybe a little mis-understanding of my comments going on. I certainly do not feel "Hateful" towards Mike or you or anyone else for that matter. Mr Miller has "rubbed me the wrong way" a bit, but he is entitled to his transparently anti-asian outlook on life. "China-Philes" - Translation = any man that enjoyed watching the chinese team's performance is undoubtedly a Pedophile. Mr Miller, I hope you saved one of those "Valiums" for yourself.
IO and Heather, it will be difficult for most people to understand my outlook on this issue. I am looking at this whole process through the eyes of the girls themselves. How do you think they would feel if they logged on to Stryde Hax and read the topics and comments? Do you honestly believe they would be able to interperate this as " Everyone looking out for their best interests " ??
All the topics, All the comments, Everything done for their Benefit??? I am sure there are a few people out there like you Heather and you IO, who do truly care for what is best for these girls, but you are the vast minority. My "Vengeful" comments are directed towards those who feel some great injustice has occured and that punishment and "Medal Stripping" is the only logical outcome.
Again, imagine you are the girls for one second. Imagine how you would feel knowing for the most part everyone in america feels you and your country are cheating pieces of scum. So, I have seperated the two, I will defend to the death the happiness of the young ladies themselves, that is how strongly I feel about this issue. However, I could give a rats ass about China or her policies. The two are sperate entities in my mind.
In closing, if it were possible to sanction or "punish" China itself without it affecting the girls at all, I say GO FOR IT, But it appears this blog's underlying agenda though cleverly hidden, is to HAVE THE MEDALS STRIPPED. Why do people call other people "Cheaters" over and over again unless they feel Cheated?? So I do see through the fog of "This is in their best interest" for what it truly is. I Pose this question to Mike: Would there have been a need to "Hack the Olympics" if Team USA had won the Gold??
Again, I do not "Hate" anyone, and I am thankful for the opportunity to be heard. If I seemed impatient regarding the comments, it was because I began to see other peoples comments arrive before mine when I knew I had posted before them. All of my comments have now been posted. Thank you again for the opportunity to be heard.
Your Friend, DLLF
The age limitation was made just before the Beijing olympics. Am I correct ?
Why get so hung up about the age of these girls. They have competed the same as others and do not have an unfair advantage.
They have trained hard for many years and deserve there rewards. Anyone who thinks they are under the control of the government is kidding themselves. They compete and do gymnastics because they love it.
i do not know if you have read the news of have been informed already but it seems that now yang yun commented that her "i was 14" was a slip of the tongue...
I apologize for multiple comments per blog entry in violation of your stated guidelines. I didn't originally see it; I will be mindful of this in the future.
Nevertheless, I think you'll find this article very interesting:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,428262,00.html
Apparently, the Chinese media accidentally released a detailed report of their space mission, including astronaut dialogue, before the spacecraft left the launchpad.
I'm waiting to see if other news sources report the same thing before I pass judgment, but doesn't this remind you of the movie Capricorn I?
Check out Yang Yun's excuse for her age discrepancy. Seems the IOC is also expanding their investigation to the 2000 Sydney Olympics. This article was posted yesterday on Yahoo Sports.
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/gymnastics/news?slug=ap-gym-underagechinese&prov=ap&type=lgns
Yang Yun has came out and stated she mis-spoke during the interview:
http://sports.aol.ca/article/yun-blames-slip-up-for-age-discrepancy/357164/
"Would there have been a need to "Hack the Olympics" if Team USA had won the Gold??"
I can respond directly to this question. I began looking for documents without having watched the Olympic gymnastics and without knowing who had won what. So yes, I would have done this if the US had won gold, silver, bronze or chartreuse. Honestly I thought I read later that the US had actually won some gold medals, but I'm no expert, so that's neither here nor there.
My interest came from the NY times article which made a two sentence claim that identity documents existed in China that would demonstrate that the Chinese team had cheated, but were "blocked". What does that mean?? I felt it was a strong technical challenge, something I could learn something from. I thought, maybe I will exonerate these gymnasts, maybe I will find the same documents, but either way the journey will be interesting.
Since I made my findings, my tone has changed. I attribute this to things that I hold as core values. I believe that governments must not use people as tools. I believe in individual liberty. I believe that governments must be transparent and must be held to a standard of truth by their people and the world. I believe that we as a culture are rushing headlong into a future of electronic documents without thinking about the consequences. Even Orwell did not have the imagination to dream of a future in which documents had the permanence of smoke.
I believe that the most important part of this story is that the Chinese government is removing documents from web servers in plain sight and no one cares. We should care. People keep telling me that China is stuck in the past, but when I look at the direction the US is headed, I can't help but wonder if China is showing us our future.
To: dengliglinfan
You wrote "But it appears this blog's underlying agenda though cleverly hidden, is to HAVE THE MEDALS STRIPPED."
The point of this blog is very transparent as stated above by the blog creator.
Your repetitive bullying of this blog with the same paternal argument and very annoying use of CAPS is very consistent with all the other chinese propaganda I've seen on the net. I think it's obvious who has the hidden agenda.
In Defense of the Little One, The Incompra... OH Nevermind!!!
Stryde:
Thank you for taking the time to respond. I made an Ass-ump-tion about you. I WAS WRONG. I assumed the motivating factor for you to embark on this cyber-mission was because you were one of the millions of Americans who somehow felt CHEATED and needed to exact some measure of revenge. If computer based age document manipulation is truly your only concern here, then you and I have absolutly NO quarrel.
I believe one can easily see where "Bringing this sort of information to Light" leads us. As stated earlier, my only concern in this entire matter is that these girls, who I have grown to care about, do not get their little hearts torn out of their chests and stomped on. I might be wrong in assuming this, not knowing the girls personaly, but I imagine that it probably meant a great deal to them that they were able to win the Gold in the Team event. Yes, their Government and coachs and administraters all had a hand in getting them illegally entered into their events. I do not question this. I also do not believe it would have been that exhausting of an effort for someone, possibly the IOC or FIG who's job it is to verify these matters, to have actually looked into this and gotten things right prior to the underaged offenders beginning their events.
Because they were "Let in the Door" and allowed to begin and complete all of their events, is the reason I have "a problem" to begin with. I connected with them, I care about them, at this point I begin to see things through their eyes and imagine how I would feel reading blogs like this.
It is an admirable cause, I do not think legal documents that verify peoples true age or identity should be so easily changed or erased. Unfortunatly, this is not just about "Where did the document Go???" You know as well as I that bringing all of this up and pointing all of this out leads down the road of "Hey, why don't we strip the medals away from the Chinese team, since they competed illegally".
You were quite right when you said the US girls had Won Gold medals, the US girls Won Several medals. It appears that winning the TEAM GOLD is for some reason held in higher regard by the general population. I guess it is easier to identify with for those with a "US vs THEM" mentality.
I Guess if I were one of the Chinese girls and not being a complete idiot, I would probably have some idea that some rules were broken. HuH-oH.. I may be changing my mind on this as I Type. Bottom-line... I truly think the girls should keep what they earned, I hold to the fact that they still went out and beat everyone on the competion floor. I am not an Idiot, I know "Rules are Rules", and my compassion for their feelings IS clouding my better judgment. I have taken a stand as have many of you, I choose to stand with Yang Yilin, Jiang YuYuan, He Kexin and Deng Linlin.
So China cheated. Big F***ing deal. What country didn't cheat?
What about the US government handing out American passports to foreign "American" athletes so they can compete for Team USA?
And what about all the new (undetectable) steroids being created in underground American laboratories for this very event? When it comes to innovation, China still has a long way to go before it can compete with the good ol' USA.
Denglinlin fan, all I can tell you is, if I had a way to reach out over standard TCP/IP and unfreeze Tyler Hamilton's B sample, I would do it. That's who I am.
-stryde.hax
Stryde,
The mention of Tyler Hamilton has got me thinking. Perhaps the Chinese Gymnastic team has perfected a way to infuse the blood of 5 and 6 year old girls into their gymnasts to keep them young , supple and nimble. Maybe thats why they look so young???
In any event, I guess there is no way to get around the eventuality that one side or the other in this issue is going to be left unsatisfied. If the medals are stripped then my little chinese "girlfriends" and I will be upset and will have to learn to live with it. If nothing happens then the millions of people in america who feel "Cheated" will be left un-vindicated. Either way someone loses, thats life.
For the insightful blogger (feelthepain) who has come to the astute conclusion that I am somekind of Chinese Propagandist. Dude, I am a caucasion male for San Diego, CA who has never been to China in his life. My AGENDA is to defend the feelings and happiness of a group of young ladies who I have grown to care about NOTHING MORE. I believe I have clarified several times what the Chinese Government and their policies mean to me. I APPOLOGIZE FOR MY USE OF caps , I'LL TRY TO REMEMBER THIS IS ANNOYING TO YOU.
I admire your conviction Stryde, you believe in your cause and I have no problem with that. If this (Investigation) is something that your value system is telling you is the right thing to do, then more power to you brother. I believe in my cause as well, and if defending underaged Chinese girls get's me labelled a pedophile or thought of as some sort of devil then that is the price I will have to pay for my views. We roll with the punchs!!!
DLLF.
It's official, evil won. IOC decided to ignore any evidence and believe whatever 'document' Chinese government presents NOW is real. Sure Yang Yun's comment was slip of tongue, Chinese official comment about He's age last November was slip of tongue, clerks who registered for LITTLE ONES mistook their ID numbers were all blind, guess tainted milk caused a lot of failures other than kidney stones.
its over china won:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/10/01/china.gymnasts/index.html
the ifg has put the fox in charge of the hen house ie its a self regulated industry... if the country says they are old enough they must be old enough...
at this point the best bet is to drop the age requirement going forward or the lesson here is that every country can fake official documents and have whoever they want compete... nadia returns...
So they believe the Chinese Gov't. Doesn't suprise me. I still think they cheated. They've perfected that art. It doesn't matter how old or young they are. Cheating is cheating and getting away with it, like now, doesn't teach them honesty. The facts and documents found (and those that vanished into thin air) speak for themselves.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/10/01/china.gymnasts/index.html
http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa/latestnews/stories/wfaa081001_ac_china.ce1731c4.html
Just a thought: if we hold on to the Chinese gov. lists of gymnasts, we might notice at the next worlds or at the next Olympics a name from these lists. One of a now 9,10,11 year old soon to become "16". I'm saving the lists for future reference and I won't hesitate to alert the press should any other name from the lists surface again.
I don't agree with the "evil won" conclusion. The facts show the evil "underage" accusation has lost.
You people owe He and Jiang an apology. Would you wish your daughter or sister to get picked on like this?
Multiple investigation by international body has concluded they are innocent. Do you people really have any prepondrance of evidence to refut the conclusion?
bobby, stop being so naive. Yang Yun's interview got her in trouble so she backtracked. How exactly does one forget her own age, especially when her comment specifically referenced her youth, along the lines of "I was so young, I thought I'd have another chance?"
lex, Yang Yun's final international meet, as per the FIG records, was the DTB Cup in autumn 2003. By that math, her "13 year career" spanned from 1990 to 2003, and would mean she started gymnastics at the age of 3 or 4, which is normal.
nagamas, the current age limit came into effect in 1997, and the national federations were informed it would be happening in 1996. They've had three whole Olympic cycles to adjust to the change.
dengliglinfan: I'm know I'm asking for more nausea inducing dribble, but I just can't help it. Can you help to clarify your position for me and others by answering the following question. Would you feel the same way if these were 12 year old boy gymnast?
bobbie: Remove the blinders.
Gee Sparmy3,
I guess if I were jumping in at the end of the last topic and not been following along from the beginning, I might wonder what my "position" was as well.
First... It is Deng Lin Lin not Deng Lig Lin. You are the 2nd knucklehead who managed to screw-up the spelling of her name, but hey she is only one of the cheating chinese girls and certainly not worthy of actually getting her name correct, right buddy??
Second... As stated several times previously, I tried to imagine what it must be like to be one of the young chinese ladies who just had their dreams become a reality and now had to sit around and wait and see if they were going to have to pay the price - i.e. (Lose their Medals) because of the decisions of their government and coaches.
So to directly answer your pointed question, Yes , if it had been boys, girls, turtles, or race horses that I had grown to care about and not want to see get hosed after they just busted their asses and won a competion as big as the olympics, I certainly would have felt the same way.
I know, you probably feel I should just fall in line with the rest of the GO USA crowd and cry and whine about how China Cheated and how their medals are "Tarnished". Sorry, I am not buying that brand.
I was willing to just drop the issue, and if anyone noticed I did not fire out any comments to "gloat" that the medals were not going to be stripped. I am VERY happy for the young ladies, as I am sure they are relieved that this non-sense is over.
So as expected, I will now have to field questions from the " He must be a pedophile gang ", whatever!!! Bring it ON. I know none of you can get the best of me, but you are certainly welcome to try.
P.S. - Damn they looked good in those little red uniforms : )
There , have I given you enough ammo??? Fire away.
Hey Stryde, when you gonna track down the source of the economic disaster?
For starters..suggest you check out the person acting as ...
Compliance Director
Freddie Mac
2007 — 2008 (1 year)
Focused on credit default swaps (CDS), mortgage default, and subprime models as well as debt and equity issuance and repurchase laws and regs and oversight for $700 BN portfolio..
the rules that stop people like the 11 year old north Korean gymnast or 14 year old Chinese gymnasts competing are in place to protect the gymnasts. They are the equivalent of policies that we might have for not importing products made by child labour - for almost identical reasons.
新的生物学搜索引擎。我想这个网站是一个中国博士后制作。
Recent information surfaces regarding other athletes whose ages have been changed, including NBA basketball player Yi Jianlian.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AtujBE9Ou770nQ2vwjDDPHOLvLYF?slug=ap-yisage&prov=ap&type=lgns
http://forums.interbasket.net/showthread.php?t=8749
I saw this article this morning and thought you would be interested...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/27/chinese-gymnast-was-under_n_479220.html
I'm wondering if Yang Yun and her family had to pay back all of the money their country gave them as award. I befriended a former PRC coach. As a former American gymnast, I couldn't believe how much money their gymnastics receive when they win. (which is totally opposite of America, many parents including Shannon Miller's had to take 2nd mortgage just to cover costs for the olympics)
I have worked alongside, former PRC gymnasts who retired at the age of 19 as millionaires. I'm sure most people would keep their mouths shut to hold on to money like that and/or risk their lives. Kudos to the Chinese national who did the whistleblowing!
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